I told you so

We have a family of 6 boys ranging from age 16 to 3. And believe me they are very creative. there is never a dull moment at our house. My theory has been to let them develop at their own pace. to be there and answer their questions and show them how as they ask. I am reminded of a remark I once heard . that it is no wonder kids are confused . the first 3 years of their lives they are begged encouraged and cajoled to walk and to talk. and then once they master that they are told to shut up and sit down. We try not to give them sensory overload. But with 6 boys in one house maybe it is Mom and Dad that have sensory overload sometimes. Creativity is certainly encouraged. But so is discipline meaning teaching perseverance for one, and also teaching them the difference between yes and no. As to what toys , trikes wagons books dolls Farm animals and equipment games chutes and ladders candy land uno old maid etc. etc. And you know watching the boys sometimes it seems the more simple the toy is the greater their imagination is. They are more fascinated with empty boxes and sticks and baler twine then something with a lot of bells and whistles . I also am fascinated by how 6 boys with the same father and mother and the same genes can be so different from each other. We have the Type A doer . The gregarious, The precise , The imaginative the ham , the sensitive , and the astute ones. And also their mother is a saint

Posted by: Mr. X (AAP) | March 10, 2009 at 09:17 AM

I'm assuming the author of the above piece is the same guy being interviewed here.

This is what was being said about him.

This is a fantastic interview, amazing in fact. A very articulate and educated individual was the subject of your interview. Very impressive indeed.

I'd say your friend is probably a little more astute than many of the Amish that I have met, but then again he seems to be more astute than most of the non-Amish I have met as well!

Here's my thoughts at the time;

If the Amish guy had to perform in his admirers' world at a level worthy of the accolades being showered on him, he'd probably crumble like a museum piece that's subjected to the elements after being behind glass for a century.

I was right, he can barely friggin write! My heart goes out to him. I see myself as barely being able to friggin write either, especially based on what I want to achieve through writing. I cry bitter tears of frustration, almost on a daily basis not only because of how limited my skills are, but also for how tooth and nail I've had to fight for every little scrap of acumen I've managed to scrape together. What's really scary is that aside from a couple notables like Reuben and the author of the "Buggy Spoke Series", he and I probably represent the cutting edge of writing ability among the Amish. What the hell does that tell you about the Amish schools?

And what does it foretell of Amish society?

Straight from the horses mouth

In the comments


The ordnung is more a set of collective understandings of expected behavior, rather than a set of rules. Why they differ from group to group is because each congregation has a degree of autonomy and also because ordnung develops informally and as much or more,from the lay members up, as from the ministry down. In fact there is hardly any hierarchial structure at all.

I've been known to be pretty adamant about Amish society being inherently hierarchical. It looks like the mysterious Mr. x begs to differ. He needs to read "Serpico". The behavior of the corrupt officers who were trying to get Serpico to conform to their way of "doing things" was so familiar to me when I read the book that I could've told you what was going to happen next, even though I didn't know the story. That process of threatening someone in such a way that you can deny having done it. Oh yeah, it's for your own good too! The language, the posturing by superiors who were responsible, but needed to cover their butts, it was all so nauseatingly familiar, and the fact that twenty years after Serpico testified, there still wasn't an outside commission appointed to deal with corruption, that was familiar too. The Amish don't act either, not when acting might ruffle a couple feathers at the top.


Yeah well, Damn'em! Damn'em all to hell!

Time to rethink the wisdom of Wisconsin vs. Yoder

President Obama

It is our responsibility as lawmakers and educators to make this system work. But it is the responsibility of every citizen to participate in it. And so tonight, I ask every American to commit to at least one year or more of higher education or career training. This can be community college or a four-year school, vocational training or an apprenticeship. But whatever the training may be, every American will need to get more than a high school diploma. And dropping out of high school is no longer an option. It's not just quitting on yourself, it's quitting on your country

What does this mean for the Amish?

A friend of mine in a letter to the editor;

As stated in Jack Brubaker's Scribbler column of a week ago, there are now approximately 25,000 Amish in our county and, at current birth rates, that number is expected to double in 20 years.

Well, taking calculator in hand and rounding out a year for convenience, that works out to 50,000 by the year 2030, 100,000 by 2050 and over a half-million by the end of this century.

And, if we want to look seven generations ahead, as environmentalists tell us to do, that works out to about 16 million by the year 2200.

another writer responds to Phil

Phil expanded on that and projected that the Amish population of Lancaster County should be over a half-million by the end of this century and 16 million by the year 2200.

There must be some truth in the saying, "The meek shall inherit the earth."

This is all really funny right now, but once the reality of this population difference starts to be felt it's not going to be fun and games any more. The Amish would've been much better off if they had stayed in the public school system all along, instead of isolating themselves into some fringe cocoon. It would've taken sacrifice on their part, but what's coming at them now isn't going to come without a price.

At the very moment that the Amish are entering the non-agrarian work force in droves, their educational readiness to do so is moving in the opposite direction.


Here's a link to a lecture by Steven Nolt via Amish America in which he mentions three schools in Indiana that were run by the public school system but were attended by Amish students. The schools recently closed, as did a similar one here in Lancaster county. Right at the moment when they could be a shining example of a way forward those doors seem to be slamming shut.

Heat on the heater

You can buy a "Lancaster wall'' or a "Strasburg wall'' heater from them.

This is all very odd.

At a time when millions of people are out of work and/or living in homes they no longer can afford, people are buying decorative space heaters at inflated prices because "Amish,'' who don't ordinarily use electricity, are associated with them.

What a great country!

No Jack, what you have just reported on has no correlation to the greatness of our country. And your attempt to infer that it does is indicative of your sorry assed inability to call a spade a spade. As a matter of fact, it is this kind of lame assed reporting that is hurting my peeps, more than it's helping them, so stuff it!

At a time like this it isn't (odd) for this to be happening, it is sad and vaguely morbid. The consequences that the Amish could suffer in lost respect and reputation is immeasurable.

Gettin my hate on

"Amish man's new miracle idea helps home heat bills hit rock bottom," screams one ad, fashioned to look like a newspaper article. "You'll instantly feel bone soothing heat in any room. You will never have to be cold again."

It's an enticing prospect in this winter, and this economy. But a $20 hardware-store space heater provides the same amount of heat.

Cross posted here

Here in lies the problem. No Amish person in today's economy or in any economy should sell a necessity item like a heater at a grossly inflated price and still consider themselves a member of the human race!

Either get rid of the damn broad brimmed hat and be willing to admit that you're just a common sleaze ball huckster or check in your humanity card!
It's one or the other, baby, make up your mind!

Selling out the Amish

He Goes on and on for the entire post;

The first ad was toeing if not crossing the line. But hard to imagine an Amish producer giving explicit agreement for the second. And if it did, that's a business that's really run itself off the rails.

,pretending that he's really sophisticated about Amish sensibilities, but he's completely ignoring the most pertinent issue for the Amish here.

Is this heater a scam product? That's what they need to be worried about. Having their name associated with something that a twelve year old can figure out is a rip off, isn't a good public relations move.

Stirring the pot

(an excerpt from Burke's letter)

And there is such a thing as guilt by complicity. Not all Plain People are cruel to animals, but all share responsibility for such cruelty, since they aren't making internal efforts to stamp out abhorrent practices. We aren't hearing the Amish and Mennonite taking a hard stand, or any stand, condemning the mills. They need to and they need to let us hear it.

I applaud Julianne Burke's assessment, "Puppy mill accountability," Jan. 12. The plain community would be much better off if they took responsibility for the welfare of their dogs in a way that would be above reproach. For the life of me, I can't figure out why they won't get this monkey off their backs.

That said, let's be honest, on the other side. This is not just a "plain community" problem.

An article in the Milwaukee magazine 12/22/08 notes that, in 2005, dog breeding was a $14 billion-a-year industry. It mentions a "craze" for "designer dogs" which sell for $3,000 per animal. Meanwhile, the Humane Society estimates the number of cats and dogs that are euthanized in a year are 3-4 million.

Does this excuse the plain community for mistreating animals? Absolutely not! But it certainly reveals that they aren't the only ones off their rocker when it comes to relating to Fido!

It's non-plain community folks who created a society totally dependent on the automobile. Let's do a tally of the havoc that cars wreak on animals (wild and domestic).

After envisioning all the broken and mangled little bodies left in the wake of our lifestyle, it doesn't leave much question about who has the bigger beam in their eye.